Libertarian Alliance Conference, 2008 (part I)

Libertarian Alliance Conference, 2008 (part I)

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I've just spent a fantastic weekend in the hallowed halls of the National Liberal Club at the annual Libertarian Alliance conference. If, like me, you see yourself as more of a theoretical policy wonk doing the background stuff of coming up with ideas, rather than the rather more practical work of debating actual proposals and then selling them on the doorstep, this was the perfect sort of a conference. A little like spending an entire party conference in the various fringe events where hand picked speakers with great ideas to sell challenge the little gray cells rather than in the sort of "win or lose" arguments over specific policy proposals of the main conference debates.

Yes, since going to Lib Dem conferences over the past few years, I have found the latter enjoyable, I don't think I've been on the winning side of a controversial debate yet, but this sort of event is where, I think, policies are incubated and born out of ideas presented by people with brains the size of several planets each or you gain the intellectual ammunition with which to turn that losing streak in policy debates into winning arguments.

I've come away from it with both many new acquaintances, a reading list that will probably take me till doomsday to get through and enough controversial ideas to keep my many sceptical Lib Dem friends arguing till, oh, next year's LA conference. I shall work up several ideas into blog posts of their own in the forthcoming weeks and months but to start with I thought I'd give a quick overview of the sessions and speakers. All the sessions were being filmed and will eventually appear on the LA website to refer to so if I fail miserably to pass the essential detail on, you'll be able to watch the originals should you wish...

Session 1 - The Defeat of of Aging: Our Ultimate Freedom? by Dr Aubrey de Gray
Session 2 - Future Shock: Three Perspectives on Freedom in the Twenty First Century with James Panton, Sean Gabb and Martin Summers
Session 3 - "The Global Rise of Private Education for the Poor: A Libertarian Perspective" by James Stansfield
Session 4 - Future Imperfect: Tech Revolutions That Might Happen and Their Consequences by David Friedman

Session 1 - The Defeat of of Aging: Our Ultimate Freedom? by Dr Aubrey de Gray

Aubrey is a fun, and at times controversial, biologist at Cambridge University working on the science of "fixing" the aging process. There are, apparently, two conventional approaches to dealing with the problems of aging. Basically, at the moment, from the moment we are created we start storing up the means of our own death. The very processes that keep us alive, metabolism, causes damage in our cells and throughout our bodies. That damage builds up until the body can no longer prevent it becoming one of the many illnesses associated with aging and that eventually, if we are not killed first by an external event, it will kill us. Globally, 100,000 out of the 150,000 people who die each day die of these conditions, which can be and usually are extremely unpleasant, often very painful and upsetting both for the sufferers and those who witness it - loved ones and carers.

One "school" of dealing with aging, "geriatrics" focuses on trying to prevent that damage becoming pathology ie developing the illnesses that will kill us. But it is ultimately futile. It is not repairing or removing the damage, just holding back the time it takes to become dangerous to us. And we cannot do that indefinitely.

The other traditional approach, "gerontology", focusses on trying to stop metabolism creating the damage in the first place. It sounds more promising, until you realise how little we actually know about metabolism. There is just so much that we cannot yet understand enough to prevent it causing damage, and therefore eventually pathology.

But there is a third, emerging approach that focuses on maintenance. De Gray made the analogy of a car - if you maintain it rigourously you can make it last more or less forever. And so this approach to aging focuses on repairing and eradicating the damage and maintaining cells. Repairing the damage means it does not build up enough to become pathology. As science, mostly microbiology, is constantly evolving, the types of damage we can repair increase. And because we are acting on the observable damage, there are a finite number of types of damage to focus on. We can see the damage metabolism creates much better than we understand the processes that lead to the damage.

De Gray and his team believe that at a very conservative estimate of the rate of development of the techniques required to repair various types of damage (some are easier, some still distant dreams of course) within 42 years we could have the ability to extend life by thirty years by repairing half of the types of damage we observe. So the current assumption is that the first person who will be able to live to 150 years old is already alive today and people currently in their thirties may be in time to have their lives extended by about thirty years over heir current life expectancy.

But as we move forward and discover mechanisms to deal with more types of damage, so we can repeat the "full body service" and begin to extend life out beyond the 150 years, indeed almost indefinitely. Again, given the rate of discovery, De Gray calculates that the first person to be able to live to 1,000 years will only be twenty years younger than the first person that will live to 150.

Such a prospect of course raises all sorts of issues, ethical, cost, policy and so on. But De Gray's conclusion was that given the amount of suffering that aging causes, and the costs to society of dealing with that suffering, we should not be put off from pursuing it. If, eventually, we have to answer some of the more difficult questions - what will the world's population look like if we can live effectively forever, and should we create ways in which someone can choose to end their otherwise perfectly healthy lives, that's something for the future.

And the cost of developing these techniques would appear to be minimal compared with even the cost of health care currently just in the UK. You can find out more, and importantly about how to help, financially and otherwise, at the "Methuselah Foundation" website.

Session 2 - Future Shock: Three Perspectives on Freedom in the Twenty First Century with James Panton, Sean Gabb and Martin Summers

I'm rather afraid that my relying on memory rather than taking copious notes will not do this session justice and it will be best to get the full picture from the recording of the session when it comes online. The speakers focussed on the many new ways in which our freedoms are being attacked and compromised, but more importantly on our apparent willingness to allow it to happen and unwillingness to protest against it. Even though theoretically, in a democracy, we are, sheep like in most cases, simply obeying and finding reasons to excuse the actions of those who would curtail our freedoms.

As I say, watch the video when it comes out.

After a very pleasant lunch with Tristan in the fascinating Ship & Shovell Pub just up the road in Craven Passage I'm afraid I was a few minutes late for the start of the session after lunch, "The Global Rise of Private Education for the Poor: A Libertarian Perspective" by James Stansfield , and decided to sit it out rather than disturb the room clattering in late, so both you and I will need to wait for the video! Or, there's a very good synopsis courtesy of the Oxford Libertarian Society blog .

Session 4 - Future Imperfect: Tech Revolutions That Might Happen and Their Consequences by David Friedman

Then came one of the great highlights of the whole weekend, a hugely entertaining session of futurology and technological ideas by David Friedman, son of Milton and Rose, and professor of Law at Santa Clara University. I just cannot do this fast paced entertaining session the justice it deserves in a few lines. It was based on the ideas in his new book, Future Imperfect, which you can get at Amazon, or if you are too mean, or just plain penurious, he has put it all online.

He covered areas I will probably blog about individually (when I have read the book), including privacy technology, law enforcement technology and how to get around it, reproductive technology (think Gattaca) and, most indelibly etched in my mind, nano technology. The main thought I came away with out of a myriad of interesting possibilities was "should we actually be worried about climate change if, within a few decades, we will have produced nanobots and artificial intelligence such that we will have obsoleted the human race!" - as Friedman put it, turned us into gerbils in the laboratories or even the Matrix, of self-aware super intelligent 'droids.

I chose to miss out the final, additional session of the day to meet up with Lib Dem activist from Ealing Toran Shaw for a drink before we all went into the dinner, but I will definately want to watch the video of the session and the Libertarian Alliance DVD on the subject of "The Great British Road Pricing Debate: Free Market Incrementalism or Just More State Control?" which is obviously currently a hugely important policy issue that has caused a lot of debate within the Lib Dems.

And so ended the main business of day one. I shall return to cover the very sociable dinner and day two, including such controversial issues as Hans-Hermann Hoppe on the idea of the "Private Law society" and Guy Herbert from NO2ID soon.

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Comments

Anonymous's picture
Sounds like a good conference. I would have liked to have been there, particularly as I now work in one of the labs Friedman mentions in his book.
Jock's picture

The monkey arm one I presume?

Things have moved on haven't they?  Did I not read somewhere recently a human was doing something similar?

And yes, a very interesting weekend!

Anonymous's picture
I actually work on the locomotion in the same lab (at least I will once I have written the code to control it all) but under the same premise - using neural data, lifted straight from the cortex, transformed to control artificial legs. The work has moved on since then, although there are still quite a number of hurdles. A lot of work has been done on making the predictions better but the research still comes up against the problems of making a viable, working neuroprosthetic - the brain doesn't like being implanted, the various computers, amplifiers and DSP's use up too much power, hardwired implants increase the risk of infection, but wireless implants also take up a lot of power,... The human implant (down by a group at Brown University) actually didn't go that well. The guy was able to partly control an on-screen cursor but couldn't control (if memory serves me correctly) a robotic arm. In a second implant they lost half the signals overnight and the guy couldn't really do anything. But there is only so much you can do in an animal before you have to move it into humans and find out what a para/tetraplegic brain is still capable of, so expect in the next few years more human implants. The stuff David Friedman seems to be talking about though is the input rather than the output - how to add sensation to these interfaces is a really big challenge but one that opens up the biggest number of possibilities. Through the motor work you could envisage someone controlling robotic arms/legs/etc but with the sensory work then you could 'sense' anything, anywhere. If its a bleak day in Oxford, you just plug yourself in and feel the warmth of the south pacific sun on your face. If you enjoy the stuff in Friedman's book then I, unsurprisingly, have loads of papers on the subject I can forward to you.
Jock's picture

Certainly he sold it very well - it was a hugely entertaining talk as I said.  I suspect I shall dip in a bit.  I do remember it was that onscreen cursor thing I was thinking about that I had seen recently somewhere.

He seemed to think that a lot of this stuff might actually come to pass in the far east first where, he suggested, they have fewer qualms about playing with the sort of things that tend to throw up ethics issues in the west.

I guess though, since things like the DTs have origins in the brain if you can isolate what makes people "feel things" - fictitious creepy crawlies and the like - you could turn it around the other way and influence what it is they feel.

Anonymous's picture
In terms of neuroprosthetics, I don't know of any labs in the far east that are working on it, although we do work with a robotics department in Japan. But our lab has very close links with Brazil (mainly because my boss is Brazilian) so some work might move there. It is true that it is becoming harder to do work in western countries which is pushing research further east and further south. Yep, you only 'feel' something due to the act of electrochemical impulses in your nervous system, from the receptors in your skin that are activated all the way through to the sensory areas of the brain and if you interact with any part of this pathway you can change the way the person 'feels' including right at the top of the chain. A great piece of work was done at SUNY in 2000(?) where they implanted a rat with electrodes in the part of its brain that was usually activated by its whiskers touching something - by send pulses to this area they could make the animal 'feel' on its left/right side. They added a pulse to the reward centre of the brain as well so that when it responded correctly it got a 'reward' and they then essentially had a remote-controlled rat. This is an area that more and more people are working on and will be paramount to getting workable neuroprosthetics.
Anonymous's picture
The most interesting point that David Friedman raised, I thought, was the impossibility of restraining technological advancement. As he put it, there are sufficiently many wealthy elderly people to ensure that life extension technologies will be developed, regardless of religious or environmental concerns that might limit it in some locations. It's similarly futile in the long run to think that campaigning against wiretapping, say, will be sufficient to effectually constrain government misuse of technology. Rather, the same technologies are the key to ensuring that the real restraint - the high cost of carrying out surveillance - is maintained, by creating new obstacles with encryption. This much less naive mindset combines the best of Virginia Postrel's technological optimism with the Public Choice recognition of the difficulty of restraining government action, and gives a more convincing answer than any other I've heard. And his point about global warming has inculcated in me an indifference towards environmentalism, having ceased even to be annoyed about the ridiculous 'Our Earth is Dying' posters that blight the town centre at the minute. I noticed something in your other post on the conference that I wanted to comment on. I entirely share your sentiment (were you the gentleman at the back of the room who made this point during the questions?) that Guy Herbert provided a much more rigorous argument against the database state than one normally hears, and avoided the slightly generic, unconvincing emotional appeal of 'I am not just a number.' I had never previously got round to sending money to No2ID, but based on the strength of that speech, I'm just about to post the membership form. The Oxford Libertarian Society has an event in a few weeks with the local chair of the No2ID campaign (see http://no2id-oxford.org.uk/?p=74 and http://oxlib.org.uk/termcard) to which you're most welcome to come. We also pinched Hans Hoppe and David Friedman last week, whilst they were in Britain for the conference, and hope to upload the recordings of their talks soon. Both made a compelling case for anarchy over minarchy: Hoppe from a quasi-Rothbardian position, with the state as inefficient and exploitative, and Friedman from an examination of the corresponding, magnified weaknesses inherent in government action to respond to 'market failure.'
Jock's picture

What you say about Friedman's talk is roughly what I was intending to work up into a more standalone post, including some of the stuff from De Gray's talk about whether or not we should seek to stop longevity work.

I did notice, too late really to make contact with anyone, that you had Hoppe and Frideman in last week and then spoke to someone at the conference at the weekend (the chap who writes the hitherto unknown to me Angllo-Austrian blog from Henley) who had gone along to the Hoppe one and said that it was a bit packed with "antis" who gave him a hard time.  It would be great if there are recordings because whilst I might have gone along to Friedman on Friday because I knew the name I probably wouldn't have gone along to Hoppe just because I had never really come across him before but his waas I said in the other half of the review probably the session I gained the most from.

Although I work at Brookes and am roughly our equivalent to a junior dean in one of our halls it's been a long time since I got involved in any university societies so I'd welcome the chance to come along to the event in December.

I'm so involved with lots of things that I'm afraid I am an "armchair" member - donations and luker on the Oxford NO2ID mailing list and so on but never been to any of their events or stood in Cornmarket on a Saturday.  After hearing Guy (and yes it was me who made that point) if I can make the time I think I ought to get more involved locally too!

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